3D Stereoscopy – Canon 5D MkII and some DIY tips and tricks

I’ve had some enquiries at work, as well as some recent facebook conversations about low budget DIY 3D, specifically around the Canon 5D/7D.

First off I’m going to talk about the Canon’s and why it doesn’t work… at the moment, and I’ll give a link and pics to people who don’t care and have done it anyway. So read what I’m saying but don’t necessarily let it stop you from experimenting.

In this age of firmware updates and software driven, microprocessor controlled cameras (basically all of them), the camera’s capabilities are typically defined and limited by software rather than by hardware alone. This is fantastic as it allows new features to be added over time in firmware updates that can be released over the net. One prime example of this is the update that will allow 23.98, 24, 25fps recording on the Canon 5D. It didn’t come out of the factory this way, but market demand dictates to Canon that they missed the mark and the demand is for those missing frame rates. They built the camera in such a way that they can change the software, make it available as a download, and keep their clients happy. It’s no longer a case, as it used to be, that you had to buy a whole new camera, or update the hardware inside. Red Digital Cinema has been doing this for years, and with each new firmware update, a Red One owner finds themselves with a brand new camera. The hardware hasn’t changed, but the software and codecs have become more sophisticated and better with time.

Back to the Canon, the two main issues facing anyone wanting to shoot 3D with the Canon’s are sync, and codec. Both of these issues are actually tied to the same underlying need, a need which the Canon’s cannot meet and no firmware update can change this.

For 3D stereoscopy to work, both cameras shutters must be perfectly in sync, in fact, really the sensors must be read at identical times down to the millisecond. Right and left eye must be temporaly identical, exposures taken at precisely the same moment. This is especially the case when the camera moves, or a subject moves through the frame. Any temporal shift that results in a mis-match between the relative positions of cameras or subject due to out of sync shutter will compromise the stereo effect.

At the moment, there is no way to sync the shutters on two 5D’s or 7D’s. The other issue is that H.264 is not recording true frame by frame motion in any case. A frame is an approximation, and may share much of the image data from the frame before it or after it (in image areas with limited or no percievable change). This in fact may not make 3D an impossibility but it is certainly a major compromise.

Here’s a link to a very good discussion on the Cinema5D forum and some pictures of a stereo rig made from 3DFilmFactory’s excellently priced beam splitter rig.

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4813&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=d774b80aa5ffc8f9d138a737db104c16#p33219

Here you can see the modified rig, and the mothod they have used to sync the “record” start/stop as best they could by splitting the infra red signal from the remote over fibre optic cables to the two respective IR sensors on the camera bodies.

http://www.3dfilmfactory.com/3d_camera_rigs.html#3dbs

This is the best, most cost effective beam splitter you will find, it’s really a indie DIY 3D dream come true.

I want to mention a couple other generic but important considerations.

Inter-ocular distance is the distance between the optical centre axis of the two cameras. This needs to approximate the distance between two human eyes, but the rule is about 1/30th of the distance to the nearest object.

Convergence is the ability to bring the two centre axis together at the point of focus. In this case, convergence is  a matter of an adjustment at the camera base plate, and could be geared to the motorized focus mechanism driving the focus rings on the two lenses.

Some rigs us a parallel set-up where inter-axial distance is changed according to the distances and composition of the shot, some choose the convergence method. Some post adjustment may be required in both cases.

Here is a great discussion on this topic:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/268/134

The last thing I think should be a consideration, is the method of motorizing and controlling the focus of two optically matched lenses. ARRI and C-Motion, perhaps others have 3D solutions.

27 Responses to 3D Stereoscopy – Canon 5D MkII and some DIY tips and tricks

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  4. With producers/distributors saying that they can release 3D versions of film after ‘normal’ filming has taken place. The whole this about doing anything because it is digital. Would it be possible to use a single camera to achieve the Stereoscopic effect. With Nuke, which has some cool handle of Stereoscopy? Seems a tall story to me.

    • Hi Phillip, the whole idea of “converting” normal 2D flat media to 3D is a tall story as far as I’m concerned. I’m researching this for one of my next blog posts. There is no way that a real 3D stereoscopic result can be achieved from anything other than a stereoscopic camera rig shooting both right and left eye simultaneously. Anything else is a compromise at best.

  5. Despite all this I am actually trying to put together a 3d rig based on a couple of panasonic GH1, the camera can record mjpeg as well as h264, and a guy called tester13 has relased a hack that unablesa the camera to record at up to 70 or 80 mbits per second as mjpg, which is way better than the 5D with h264, which would circonvent the temporal porblem of the codec for stereoscopy. I´d love to hear your thoughts on that.

    • I’ve been tracking developments from tester13 and have been meaning to write up an update on my own blog but have simply not had time. I have to be honest, I could be totally wrong, but I’ve not come across anything that indicates a method of frame-lock or genlock on the GH1. Again, I could be totally wrong.

      I’m going to do a bit of research now and see what info I can find.

  6. Fantastic link to the real world test info on the prepshootpost blog, that’s the first time I’ve come across that site. Phillip, best bet is to get in touch with Bastien Francois directly. As far as I am concerned I still can’t see a framelock of genlock solution for stereoscopy using the GH1.

  7. I don´t think we will see any kind of genlock possibility for some time on the GH1, but it seems people have shot stereoscopic stuff with 5Ds, using a good all clapper for sync. The second drawback being the h264 time based codec, this issue is in some way resolved with the gh1 hack and shooting in mjpeg). What I very much like is the fact that a gh1 based rig would be ultra portable. I have been looking at the neutron beam splitter (one of the smallest ones around) for example, but it is way out of my budget (they ask 55K) so I will experiment first with a side by side rig, and wait to see what come up. I am hoping to see hdmi live preview through tester13´s next hacks which would unable a 3d monitor to be plugged. I just have shot a 3D commercial in Germany, with a PS technik rig and a couple of sony 900s, that was probably 70 or 80 kgs, limiting in many ways our shoot( could not even fit it in some locations. Check out thew spot and a quick making of here: bastienfrancois (dot )com/3d/ and you´ll see what I mean.

    • Sounds great, I suppose then that a true 100% frame lock is not necessary?

      How do you know that your two GH1′s are reading the sensor at exactly the same moment in time? How do you know that A and B frames are temporally identical without some kind of digital scan level sync?

      Without it they could be unsynchronized by up to half a frame. If you are at 25fps at 1/50th sec for instance and cam B fires a quarter, or a half frame after cam A, you’ve got a continuous temporal discrepancy of a fraction of a frame that can’t be fixed sync’ing to a visual reference.

      Am I making any sense? Sometimes I’m not sure :-)

  8. yup, there is no way to make sure that both sensors are read at exactly the same time, but the “tester13 hack” resolves part of the issue by enabling one to shoots high res, high bitrate(some reported up to 80mbits!), full HD mjpeg (a spatial codec) instead of H264 (temporal codec), so at least, theoretically, both eyes could be re-synched in post. Got myself a couple of shutter triggers that I´ll combine, then i´ll see what the deal is. I am also looking at making a small beam splitter to accomodate the gh1s, but that´ll take some time I think.

  9. I didn´t actually answer the question did I? yup there could be a time discrepancy between both eyes, which might not work for moving shots or fast moving objects, I hope it wont matter much for static shots or slow moving shots. As we know, shots in 3D should be slow and long, too many cuts between wide and close ups will pop the viewer´s eyeballs out.

    • I think maybe I’m splitting hairs, I have no experience yet shooting stereoscopic, only the theory. I think you should go for it, I agree, if there’s no quick movement, or objects moving too quickly within frame (especially to or away from the camera) maybe you won’t even notice.

      Man, I’d love to play with this kind of stuff. At the moment I don’t have access to cameras. I never thought I’d be in a position where I can shoot 35mm or 16mm any day of the week, but I struggle to get hold of digital cameras, but that’s the way it is at the moment… and I can’t imagine trying to shoot stereoscopic on celluloid. First off it would be a big rig, like the element technica, second I’d somehow need to mechanically sync the shutters of both cameras… oh, and then matched glass, not impossible but I’ve not heard of anyone these days shooting a stereoscopic picture on celluloid.

      Anyway, I digress… good luck, please share any tests or reports back!

      Rich

  10. In attempting to do 3D video on the 5D Mark II I am wondering about some of the ideas discussed above… namely:
    1. how would using fiber optic sync be any better than electrical via wired releases?
    2. would sync appear to be better using higher or slower frame rates and longer or shorter shutter speeds. In other words, given the loose sync is it better to shoot with 30fps and 30th of a sec exposure because the identical overlap period would be longer, or would it be better to shoot at 60fps and 60th of a second exposure to speed up the flow of 3D images to the mind and thereby minimize the brain’s exposure to each individual incidence of non-sync?
    3. Would shooting shorter clips minimize any drift between the exposures by the two cameras or are the quartz timers so good that there is no noticeable drift in sync?
    4. is there any way to use the EOS Utility software to externalize sync issues from the camera body
    5. how easy is it to hack a 5D mark II to use the tester13 hack?
    6. does the new T2i offer any new possibilities in any of these areas?
    7. Are any modders even talking about adding genlock physically to the 5D mark II?
    8. What is the difference bewteen framelock and genlock?

    Any thoughts would be most welcome…

    • Wow, fantastic questions.

      I think this is one of those things that would greatly benefit from some actual results from real shoots in various conditions.

  11. As any of you here ever heard of possible 3D monitoring through TFT glasses? Seems such an easy solution instead of those expensive 3D monitors…

  12. Panasonic is coming out with a stereo camcorder based on the HVX, but MUCH pricier as well, about $20K, no possibility of varying the interocular distance but at least the rest, focus zoom, are linked.

    I still would prefer a rig based on a couple of DSLRs, I am hoping that tester 13 will release a hack for live preview on the gh1, than most big problems are solved, for a basic, low cost rog producong good looking stuff.

  13. Pingback: DSLR 3D | SynapticLight

  14. I thought I´d let you know guys that you´ll find some info on the 3D beamsplitter rig I designed using a coupld of hacked gh1s, on my blog: 3dfilming.blogspot.com, but it seems this thread is pretty dead by now…

  15. Here NEW DIY 3D RIG

    This 3D beam-splitter based rig is DIY production, so you can adjust what you want with tuning up by your self. This min-sized ultra-light 3D rig is the world’s most affordable beam-splitter 3D rig system. This 3D rig can help you create amazing 3D images, while maintaining viewer comfort.

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    priced at only $1,480 + S&H

  16. Gen-lock Canon 5D Cameras & Shoot 3D

    Every month the 3D Film Factory receives dozens of calls from Canon 5D owners worldwide asking us how they can gen-lock their DSLR cameras to shoot “in sync” 3D. Unfortunately, we’ve had to tell them that it wasn’t yet possible to gen-lock any of the Canon DSLR cameras, or Nikons for that matter. And yes, you can shoot 3D without gen-locking your cameras, but the frames will be misaligned and you can’t fix it in post. We’ve tried, trust us it looks bad.

    But now, thanks to Peter Clark at Attic Studios, ingenuity has succeeded once again. Mr. Clark has devised a simple, field-tested method for gen-locking the Canon 5D mark II DSLR cameras, and thus creating beautiful, aligned, “in sync” 3D.

    To read more visit — http://3dfilmfactory.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:gen-lock-canon-5d-mark-ii-cameras-and-shoot-3d&catid=42:press

    About the 3D Film Factory
    The 3D Film Factory is the leader in professional, affordable 3D camera systems and real-time, 3D viewing solutions. In addition we provide a host of 3D production services for hire, including 3D camera rigs, 3D viewing systems, stereographers, and 3D post, as well as, monthly 3D training workshops. Former clients include ESPN, NASA, Disney, HD Cinema, Pinewood Studios, Attic Studios and Discovery. For more information visit http://www.3DFilmFactory.com

    • Fantastic! Thank you so much Karl, I’m going to cut and paste your comment as a new standalone post on the blog… brilliant. If you don’t mind I’m going to add permanent links to your blog and to 3DFilmFactory on Digital Cinema Demystified.

      Thanks, please comment any time.

      Rich Lackey

    • Hi David,

      That’s a great rig you have!

      Thanks for adding the info on sync’ing the GH’s and the link… that’s super helpful. Please contribute any time!

      Rich

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